It’s been a miserable week. I’ve been wrestling with medical bills from months ago. I don’t remember the visits. The memories are stored in a vault off site of my brain. It required work. I found my documentation and found something interesting.
I’m on Medicare with a supplemental plan to cover all the things that Medicare doesn’t. Between Medicare (which is not free) and my sup, I pay more than I paid with my employer plan while working. I’m still grateful for those crumbs (which I paid into for 45 years).
Medicare has been squeezing docs and hospitals, lowering payments. This year I’ve seen creative billing like charging for two visits at the same time when there was only one. I was also asked to prepay my deductible when reporting for an appointment only to be billed again for a deductible. The net result had I not caught it, would have been an over payment of $75.
There is a number to call for “questions.” In one case the phone menu directed you to a non-existing mail box. When you were able to leave a message, there would be no callback. Ever.
I waited ten days for a call back. By repeatedly calling, I finally got a hold of the “person” who apologized and said she was busy. Ten days of “too busy” to spend less than five minutes with me clearing up the double charge. Not buying it Kayla.
I am a healthy and aware person. I wonder what the mentally impaired people do. What about the older people who get overwhelmed? Do they automatically pay anything they are charged? Something smells here.
This week I did something I’ve never done before. I posted a negative review on Yelp for one of the doc offices. I’ve had repeated billing issues with them over the past several years and they got ripped. It may not accomplish anything but I sure feel better. By the way there were other negative reviews which were always answered by a comment from the “owner” that said “we are sorry you were not happy.” That’s it. Not even a free mocha latte!
The net result is you won’t get me to a doctor unless I am dying and even then I may go directly to the undertaker. Both places suck the blood out of you. At least I won’t have to worry about paying at the second one. It will be someone else’s problem.
For those of you still working, get any elective surgery you need prior to going on Medicare. It’s just not pretty. OK, rant over.
I apologize for my negativity. I must go find my inner peace. Or maybe a Frappuccino.
I don’t have medicare yet – December – but H does. I’ve noticed an increase in his costs in the last year. Thank goodness he pretty healthy. So You are not the only one. I do try to scrutinize those bills also. Dealing with the billing for him is hard because they don’t want to talk to me – always needing his approval. If they only understood they may never get paid unless they talk to me because I’m the one taking care of the finances these days…
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We have that too. I wish we could give approval once and be once with it. I’m a big fan of privacy but they could make it easier. The idiocy is that on the phone any guy could say they are my husband and give me permission to review their records!
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I’ve thought exactly the same thing! And the point is, I don’t want to review any records. I just am trying to give them the money that is owed. But I’d like for it to be the right amount!
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There is no logic in medical insurance and btw if someone wants to pay my bill, I want that to happen!
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Lol!
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Did you know your post is closed for comments? Maybe you want that but you asked a question at the end which made me think you were looking for comments.
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No. I will have to check that out! Thanks Kate. I’ll let you know.
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Wow! That was really weird. I had to go to the end of my post in editing and check allow comments. They were closed on the last two posts I made. I wondered why my traffic had taken a decline. I post from my phone so I don’t see this option. Is this something new? I wonder. Thanks for alerting me Kate!
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I haven’t seen it but I post from a desktop and have comments set as the default. I don’t know if a phone app works differently. I have seen it more often lately but I assume the author isn’t looking for comments. Your post seemed to invite them. That’s what confused me.
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My settings have the comments turned on for all posts. I had to actually go to the post and edit to find the culprit! Thanks for catching that! I will now be on the lookout.
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Well I’ll be on Medicare in a few years too – you paint a picture of something I won’t like very much. My mom used to compare invoices versus what appeared on her statements – unbelievable what oddball charges appeared on there. The day she passed away she was not in the hospital even 12 hours from arrival in the E.R. to her passing and it was about $12,000.00.
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There are Medicare plans that are all in one meaning that there is only one payer instead of Medicare and a supplemental plan. They may be easier to manage. You have to be vigilant. Even before I was on Medicare, my PC doc at the time billed me for a visit that wasn’t. I hadn’t been there in months when it came. Unfortunately my insurance had already paid. I did notify both the doc office and the insurance company. It may have been a simple transposition of account numbers but you have to watch.
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Yes, I don’t like to think anyone is bilking their patients. We have had a lot of rather sensationistic cases here in Michigan with that happening … some for Medicare fraud, and one was a doctor my mom had seen at one time. He was a GP who specialized in gerontology and got greedy and is now in jail. My friend’s late mother also saw him and he was not even seeing patients face-to-face, but sat in a room and did the consult by intercom … in the same building! And even more bizarre, was that he had a pneumatic tube like they use at a drive-in bank, where he sent the prescription for the patient. She told her daughter about it but liked Dr. Linares so stayed with him. Shortly after her mom died (sudden stroke), I saw he was in jail … Carol (my cat friend I’ve mentioned) lives in NY and had mentioned to me her mother treating with him and I mentioned my mom did as well. We were shocked. My mom stopped seeing him when he moved about 20 miles away but Carol’s mom continued to see him. https://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/2016/07/pill_mill_doctor_gets_4_years.html
We also had the doctor who told patients they had cancer and treated them with chemo, radiation and they were not even sick. Dr. Fatah … people died as a result of his greediness. That made the national news and he is also in jail.
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A second opinion is always good. I had an eye doc insist that I had glaucoma. I had a total evaluation at an medical eye center and I didn’t have it. Not even a little.
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That is scary – my mom had low-angle glaucoma and kept it under control with drops 2X a day and had laser surgery in one eye. The surgery was years ago and the specialist sat on the floor of the exam room in a special seat and aimed the laser at her eye. Before the procedure, he explained how he would use the laser to create a hole in Lincoln’s eye in a penny and it would be the same for her. Pretty amazing!
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Wow! That is amazing.
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Yes, talk about precise!!
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I’ve been hearing a lot of stories like yours lately – which worries me. Are people generally getting less ethical or less competent? At least in your case, your frustration can be cured with a Frappuccino. Thank you, Starbucks!
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Less competent for sure. With computer programs to do most of this work I can’t figure out why there are so many mistakes. If my eye doc gets audited, I think there will be problems.
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I am so sorry you are having this trouble! It is difficult to resolve for sure, and such a headache! There’s got to be someplace they can overcharge you! But you are right – what happens to people who aren’t able to research and contest incorrect bills?
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That’s for the warning. While I’m looking forward to being retired, I dread having to deal with new health insurance (aka Medicare). My husband has Part A but is still on my HMO since I’m still working. Once I leave my job, he’ll add on our HMO’s supplemental plan. He also gets care at the local VA clinic so he’s pretty well covered. It’s a crime that they (Congress and the insurance companies) make these policies for older people so confusing. As we get older we need more clarity, not more confusion. My mom is 95 and in excellent health which she claims is because she does not go to the doctor. She has her annual checkup but pretty much avoids the doc unless she has a real medical need like having a basal cell removed or laser surgery for cataracts. Anything else she’d argue that sleep and Tylenol will do the trick. I don’t have all of her good genes (I did have cancer many years ago), but I hope I have most of them 😉
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I never go for colds, flu, minor aches or pains. I have a policy of waiting somewhere between 1 and 3 months to see if something go away on it’s own and it usually does. I’ll go if I get a reaction from multiple bee stings or feel there may be something serious going on. Even then I wait a bit.
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While I still have employer-paid health insurance, I go to the doc more than I would otherwise. Of course, I’m still working so some of that is just to get me back to work faster ;( Ironically (or not) some of my ailments are due to the job (being around sick people, sitting at a desk staring at computer monitors all day, etc.).
Interestingly, in the two years that my husband has been retired, his overall health has improved. In fact, I don’t think he’s even had a cold while I’ve had at least a couple of bad colds. One was so bad I went to the doctor twice because I couldn’t stop coughing. Hmmm, I need to rethink my retirement date 😉
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🙂 I rarely get colds although I had one this winter. My ailments are usually weird like a pain that I thought was a kidney stone. I’m learning to wait those out until they are unbearable. Yes definitly retire! Your health does improve with limited contact with sick people.
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lol … funny how that works …
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Well that doesn’t sound like fun! Sheesh!
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It wasn’t and still continues.
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Yikes – that sounds absolutely horrible, Kate. I hope that you had that Frappuccino…and made it a double!
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I had a frap yesterday. It was half-priced day!
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I have held off commenting because I wanted to talk to ShortsSandalsNoShorts about this post. I had his undivided attention while I drove him to the eye doc this morning for another minor procedure on the eye that he had a macular hole. Our supplemental insurance is Tricare for Life (military medical insurance for retired military) and we must be really lucky because we just aren’t having a lot of mistakes… not any really. And between Medicare and Tricare after the insurance has all been processed we don’t owe the docs anything except for our annual deductible. Medicare and Tricare for Life go hand in hand… government. And yeah, I guess that could be good or bad. I hate hearing that you are having trouble, Kate. Shouldn’t it be freaking illegal for the doc’s billing dept to charge you over what medicare says you owe? I think I must be missing something.
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Theoretically speaking, our insurances should and often do work the same way. More of my problems come with “creative bookkeeping” at the docs billing department. Medicare sends an easy to understand listing of the charges, what’s covered, what isn’t and what you owe. It may be less based on supplemental insurance. It’s when nothing matches that drives me wild. I went through this last year and got the charges reversed but it’s work. Your deal sounds sweet! And thank SSNS for his service!
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Good grief, what stress doctors’ billing confounds me sometimes. So sorry for your troubles. Our dentist recently unaligned himself with our insurance company, and suddenly switching himself to non-preferred-provider status. We have to pay him in full now and get reimbursed later by our insurance company. I don’t mind him doing that, at least in theory, because we can just switch dental coverage during the next open season to a plan that includes him. But it was most unhelpful for him make this switch mid-year when I can’t do anything about it.
Good on you for writing that Yelp review. I hope they feel the sting from it. – Marty
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I lost a beloved dentist several decades ago. He decided not to file insurance claims. You had to pay, then get reimbursed. The problem was that you never knew if what he charged you was completely reimbursable. I ended up changing dentists. I am going to review my plans during the open enrollment period. We are paying a lot for very little. We are healthy and typically have 1 doc visit that isn’t an annual check up. Stay healthy!
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I understand your rant. And it’s nice of you to rant on-line with us so we can realize we’re not the only ones who have had these “problems.” First, the whole thing of calling social security and medicare “entitlement programs,” when in actuality, we’ve paid into them for years and years… and years. I HATE that word entitlement about programs that WE HAVE PAID INTO. Inhale. Exhale. My guy and I check every piece of mail/billing that comes from our doctors’ offices and Medicare. Rarely do they match, and yes, we’ve been double billed. Not by the doctor’s office though. We have a fabulous medical center (we use different doctors but the same office) and the office staff returns phone calls and moans with us and helps us find the answer. My doctor sits down with me and TALKS and LISTENS for more than half an hour Doctors like these do exist. They actually care. xo
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I like my primary care doc. This is the first time that I’ve had an issue with them and it’s so disappointing. You have to be vigilant because it’s easy to overpay. I’m wrestling with dates from Feb-Mar time frame. It takes so long to go through the system I have to keep detailed notes or I forget what I’ve already paid for and what I didn’t.
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I understand. Our “medical bills” file is wide and full because we save EVERYTHING. Inhale. Exhale. xo
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Absolutely everything!
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OMG, I cannot stand dealing with any insurance company, and I know medicare is even a worse nightmare. It does feel good to right a review on Yelp. I did it once about a doctor, too. Hope everything is straightened out now.
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It’s not the insurance company but the doctor’s billing department. After Medicare and your supplemental plan pay, the doctor bills the remainder. Making sense out of it all is nuts.
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You are right
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I’m so sorry to hear that. My experience has been better than both my employer-provided and when I had to buy it outside of an employer. And the cost is about 10% what it used to be. I have United for everything Medicare doesn’t cover. Maybe they’re better?
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I have United too but this rant isn’t about the insurance company. It’s about the incompetent staff at the doctor’s billing office. I have a Medicare statement that says exactly what I owe which is $130 less than the bill I received.
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It’s a racket all over the U.S.! Husband has “really good” private insurance and yet I still have to do battle over bills I’ve paid and extra charges. If you get seriously injured or have a baby, it becomes a full-time job.
One of my friends is a Frenchwoman. When she went back to France, a crown broke and her French dentist was so apologetic over the cost of repairing it since she no longer had French medical. It was $75.
My crown was hundreds of dollars. WITH INSURANCE.
Don’t get me started on my friends in Taiwan who pay under $100 for an ER visit and hospitalization.
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I hit a nerve with everyone. A crown in my area is well over $1K. Insurance doesn’t cover it, you just get a slight discount. Very slight. I’d be kissing that French doc. My old dentist was a dream. I had a veneer come off on a weekend. It was a front touch (I looked like a homeless person) and he met me in his office to glue it on. Less than 10 minutes, no charge. It happened again after he retired with my new doc. I had a regular weekday appointment. Less than 10 minutes = $100. The other thing about medicare is that you are no longer eligible for “special deals” from drug manufacturers. What? For private insurance only. Stinks.
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Yes. Such a nerve!
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Shaking fist and ranting along with you.
Thanks for saying it: Medicare ain’t free – it’s an expensive nightmare. All you younger /politicians who think it’s a free ride and retired/seniors/.old people should be happy and grateful with it – (some of) you know it’s all a lie and political gambit. We have never paid this much for health insurance and medical care in our entire lives and gotten so little for it. Not to mention the stress of dealing with people and documentation you must keep these days.
Oh, yeah, and I like how Medicare’s payment to one of our long term docs was exactly $5.00 for a 30 min derm visit – and we had to fight like crazy to get the biopsy covered “It was benign so not necessary”…UH except if not biopsied we wouldn’t have known for sure as there is previous incident history/genetics, right? We pay lots of money to be covered!). We almost feel like we should apologize when we make appointments knowing the reimbursement potential.
It’s not free and it seems they are trying to kill us off and want expand the wretched system to everyone and anyone who shows up?
Take care and keep that immune system up.
(And you can insert fist shaking at sky here again HaHa)
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I’m always amused (in a bad way) when I see the charges. Cost of service $2,000, payment from Medicare and med sup $50. What?
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Thank goodness you were on the ball! I, too, think about how many people accept charges without question at a doctor’s office. Of course, some people accept a diagnosis without question as well. As long as health care providers keep lowering ‘accepted rates’ for procedures so that they can make money, medical providers must find ways that they can bill more for services to make up for that loss. As with all things, it comes out of the pocket of the people!
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It does. One doctor’s office said that Medicare just covers the paperwork for an annual checkup (it’s free on the Medicare website) so if the doc checks your blood pressure or anything else at the same time, that’s another office visit charge. This is the first year for that! It’s annoying as I do the annual wellness visit because I’m encouraged to, not because I’m sick.
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how awful some “persons” treat us when we need help… it seems the word service is banned from our modern world…
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Service has undergone a face lift for sure!
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how awful some “persons” treat us when we need help… it seems the word service is banned from our modern world…
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Oh what a mess! Good for you in speaking up, yes you deserve a Frap, in fact 2 of them!!
We had a lot of trouble with our hospital double billing and then sending late charges because of not paying the full bill which was wrong!
Yes dealing with medical bills and insurance companies can drive you crazy!
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It’s so hard to get straightened out. No one calls you back. No one answers the phone. I am reduced to letters by snail mail so I have a paper trail.
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We were overseas too long to qualify for Medicare, so I just make do with the insurance that goes along with my husband’s pension. The list of things they pay for is shorter than the list of things they don’t pay for. In some ways I’m a patient person. But when it comes to figuring out how the insurance company has overcharged or double charged me, my patience goes out the window.
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Wow! I didn’t realize that working overseas disqualifies you. This beef is more about doctor’s billing practices than Medicare although I could write a rant about that. I tell all my friends to stay health and then die quickly. No point in running up bills!
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I agree. Stay healthy and die quickly if you can.
I like my chiropractor, and yet, every time I see my bill, I’m suspicious. It doesn’t make sense to me even when they try to explain it.
Re. Medicare: If you work for an American company or the US military, it counts toward Social Security and Medicare. Eugene worked for an international organization, so they wouldn’t let us pay in.
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It’s a bummer that he couldn’t pay in.
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I’m sorry to hear this, Kate. I know how frustrating it can be. I have more issues with the people working in my doctor’s offices, especially those who man the front desk. They act as though you’ve walked into their home while they’re eating dinner or something. I do have to say and maybe this will give you hope. Last week, I had two exceptionally excellent customer service experiences with my insurance company. Both went out of their way to explain the bill and they even put me on hold while they contacted my doctor’s office to discuss the error since they felt they could communicate better with all of the insurance coding lingo. Both were extremely professional and understood how complicated it can be for us to understand our statements. I actually stayed on the line and gave high reviews on their surveys.
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You are so lucky. I’ve not dealt with insurance people directly, just the billing services both inside the practice and an outside billing group contracted. One thing that Medicare does right is send a quarterly statement that is clear about what can be billed and what can’t. This is what I use as my information when I go to battle.
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I am fortunate to have excellent coverage through my employer, Kate. My $14,000 infusions I have for the Crohn’s is covered 100%. I’ve never even had to pay a co-pay. This is why I will probably never retire…LOL! 🙂
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That is a good idea. Medicare is touchy on the high end meds. Some it covers and some it doesn’t. It doesn’t cover some of my much less expensive eye drops.
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I’m glad you posted this because I haven’t heard people complain. That’s probably because the people I see rarely talk about health care. I’ve always looked at my bills carefully, and I’ll be watching even closer now. Thank you.
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Or maybe they don’t go to docs. What are the odds of getting 3 incorrect bills in a week? Maybe I should play the lottery.
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Your story is stupefying.
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And now you know why I’m cranky!
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You have cause to be cranky, for sure.
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I have zero patience for dealing with doctor bills and insurance, so I admire your ability to make your point and pay the right amount on your bills. It’s nuts that this is even an issue, but I hear about it often. There’s no rest for the wicked and apparently by going to the doctor you are one of the wicked.
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It’s all handled by people and people make mistakes. There are several steps in Medicare billing, multiple payers, etc. Makes more opportunity for error.
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I check everything too Kate. We have to anyway. Like you say, it makes you wonder about those who are not quite so on the ball.
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My heart goes out to them. I did it for my mom because it was so overwhelming.
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“We’re sorry you were not happy” is one of those bogus sayings designed to placate without actually taking responsibility. I hate it.
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As if they get points for saying it. An effort to reach out would work better.
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As if the medical procedures and appointments weren’t annoying enough!
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So true! Waiting for results! All stressful!
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You are a better woman than I am. I never check it. They tell me how much to pay and I try to pay that much. Sometimes it’s split up over months. The Rabies is just now getting paid off.
But I never look into the charges. I’m lazy. Or more realistically, I spend so goddamn much time dealing with billing, since it’s my job, that my desire to dig into it again is nil.
I wonder if I could be saving money by paying attention.
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$20 is my cut off. Under I don’t bother as it’s not worth my time. Most of my issues have been with bills overcharging over $100. I had an eye doc tell me I could try on contacts with no charge. I spent 15 minutes with his tech and found out that I have too much trouble getting the soft ones in and out. The contacts that I used did not cost anything but the fitting fee was $120. For 15 minutes of nonsense. Won’t happen again.
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No one should have to deal with that kind of bullshit. Something is VERY wrong if there is so much distrust in your healthcare system that people believe these errors are deliberate. Am I just very naive? 😕
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I got three invoices and all three had “irregularities” that made no sense. That’s 100% so I’m starting to wonder. The squeaky wheel gets the correct billing.
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😡
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Kudos for your report to Yelp Kate! You are what makes that site useful.
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I hate to do it as I feel you should address it first with the business. This was the third consecutive incorrect billing. They don’t respond to either phone calls or emails so I have to write letters. That’s a lot of work so they deserved it.
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I’m sorry to hear this, Kate. This should not be a worry for people living in a civilized society.
Deb
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Civilized? Not sure I would use that word!
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Not anymore I guess…
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Sometimes I wonder if they get commissions for overcharging.
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There could be incentives I suppose 🤷♀️
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They do get points/credits if they can make you go away without costing them more or having to return money owed you. Sleazy business in medical business/insurance offices (which assumes the customer is always wrong)
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That is just terrible! How do these people sleep at night???
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I don’t know which is worse. The eye doc has in-house billing person (who is dumber than a box of hammers) and the other 2 docs used a contracted service. None of them are knowledgeable.
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You might as well talk to a wall – a sleeping cat has more insight and knowledge
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and is way more cute!
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owning this is beneficial to health, too!
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Part of the joke of ‘healthcare’ is the strategy employed by insurance companies making obvious and stupid errors then by making resolution so challenging, the hope clearly being that people will give up and just pay it because it’s less painful or onerous. When my daughter (who was on bed rest and required to have ultrasound tests every two weeks throughout her pregnancy) was billed different amounts for the same procedure on different days, she was told by the insurance person that the time of day mattered. To which she replied, ‘listen lady, I’m hormonal and on bed rest, and I will make your life a living hell if you persist with this highway robbery.’ Surprisingly subsequent billings were charged in the same amount. Go figure.
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hahaha!! I love your daughter’s response!
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One of my proudest moments. LOL
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Your daughter sounds like my oldest son … a take-no-prisoners attitude! 😆
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Oh man, you have no idea! 🤣 And I couldn’t be happier about it.
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To say she does not suffer fools lightly would be an understatement. 😂
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My kid is witnessing the same thing – infuriating. She is taking the same approach – there’s no other choice but to let these people get away with it. You worry about the naiver who still think the medical system is bound to do the right thing, the old who are easily confused and have no one to help them, and everyone else who should not have to take the massive amounts of time to get it right. You should not feel like you have to hire an advocate to protect yourself when dealing with health issues.
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We have to be extremely conscientious consumers, but the system is not set up in our favor. I’m of “the squeaky wheel gets the grease” school of thought and think complaints coupled with vigilance is the only way to combat until such time as insurance companies stop being beholding to a ridiculously slanted profit-based system. Profit is one thing, but pure greed is something else. And don’t get me started on how their greed affects the most vulnerable-the under and uninsured. Ok, now I’ll climb off my healthcare bashing soapbox. 😇Having worked in the field for years, I’m all too familiar with the baked in advantages providers lord over patients, particularly the unaware ones.
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We have a lot of docs in the neighborhood next to us with multi-million $$ homes. Even with the cutbacks they are still doing well.
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Fifteen years ago the CEO of the healthcare company I worked for at the time made $36M a year and was the second highest paid healthcare exec in the country. WTH? He didn’t even play any sports! 🤬
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We have multiple medical personnel in family – multiple generations in various states. My Dr. father-in-law said decades ago that insurance companies would be the ruin of health care – that and the major hospital systems (which have bought and consolidated so many good hospitals and dragged them down and beaten up their staffs to total exhaustion.)
These hospital corporations are too big, and profit driven to the detriment of staff, doctors and the patients they are supposed to serve.
All about money with both insurance and hospital jumbo systems. People/consumers need to wake up. Time to talk about monopolies, Congress
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Your FIL nailed it. Insurance companies ruined things on multiple levels, much like the airline industry did for traveling.
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I couldn’t say it better. Also, I remember when I was a kid. Office visits weren’t covered, only hospital stays and surgery. OV was $20 and you got the meds from the doc in the office. Easy peasy. Going to the doc, you know exactly what it cost. If you got a “special” prescription from the drugstore it was always less than $20.
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I already love your daughter. This is the sort of thing I’m talking about.
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Healthcare IMHO = con job. 👿
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I’m going to take a back seat. Not sure I need all the routine checkup stuff. I’m healthy. I have IBS and they can’t do anything for that anyway.
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One of the problems with healthcare is patients must be scrupulous consumers. And if you don’t know, you can be left vulnerable or worse hostage by a profit driven industry.
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Also the costs aren’t posted anywhere so you never know what you are getting into. An over-reaction from a doc prescribing unnecessary tests could cost $300 in assorted costs.
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Precisely. It’s a scam and a racket for sure.
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She’s a strong advocate when she knows something is not kosher. And that makes me very proud.
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